tense-negotiations

MGTOW – With Benefits

This is the beginning of a series addressing questions sent by email to john@canadiancock.org. I received an email on February 24, and this is what he had to say:

“Hi John, I am just thinking about something and I would really like to hear your opinion on the subject. Some MGTOWs have occasional sex with women. They have One-Night-Stands or “fuck-buddies” or friends with benefits, whatever you want to call it. For me, One-Night-Stands are boring. I have no moral problem with them, I simply don´t find them fulfilling. (That´s already a warning sign for me!) Now some guys seem to be able to enjoy casual sex with women, or at least they claim that they are able to do that. But I have my doubts if that is really so easy. Of course it could be just me, because that “romantic touch” has always been something that I needed, whenever I had sex with a woman in the past. (Again a warning sign!) I personally am very sceptical if I would be able to have sex with a woman that I find really attractive and charming., without falling into her trap after a while. Now, maybe that´s just me and a sign that I am still suffering from that pussy-addiction.

Or maybe I am just “weak” and still secretly want to pursue those romantic dreams that have been put into my mind since childhood. (Now that would be pretty fucked up, would´t it?) I made a comment on your latest video where I wrote that maybe some men are like alcoholics in regard to women. You can never really get cured. Once and alcoholic, always an alcoholic. I would be curious to hear your opinion on the emotional attachment and if it is even possible to completely overcome it. I assume that men often fool themselves when they think that they have figured women out and that they can play them. At least that would be true for me. It would be like climbing into a lion cage, thinking that I can tame that lion. Well, maybe I can, but I rather not take the risk. But that are just my thoughts and maybe there are men out there who can really pull that of. I can only speak for myself and I think that there would still be a risk for me, if I would engage in a sexual relationship with a woman. I am a dry pussy-a-holic. I know that you are busy and probably get tons of messages, but I would be curious to hear your opinion on this issue.”

Some advocates of Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) take the position that complete separation from women is necessary to qualify as MGTOW, and they are certainly entitled to that opinion. Others, including myself, believe that total separation from women is an option and, in many cases, a very valuable and productive choice to be made and maintained for a period of several years for men leaving their gynocentric social programming behind.

But not all Men Going Their Own Way are celibate or sexually isolated and those who do chose a celibate life may decide after a finite period to have sexual lives on their own terms.

Seen through the MGTOW lens, conventionally patterned romantic relationships are exploitive and destructive and I would recommend against involvement for men practicing a path of MGTOW. However, just because a man departs from the social conventions he recognizes as gynocentric and destructive does not mean he ceases to be a sexual being with human needs.

But these needs make men easy prey for the game of exploitation and personal destruction that the blue pill world refuses to even recognize as a problem to be solved.

Sexual relationships for those MGTOW men who chose them will necessarily depart from the conventional model.

The subscriber who messaged me mentioned several models, including the one night hook-up. His objection was that one night stands are not fulfilling. This is an objection I share, but I will add to it with something else. One night stands are very, very dangerous, particularly in a culture which equates male self determination to an attack on women. Male self actualization is characterized as overt harm to women, as if it has anything to do with women at all. This absurdity of this is too much to delve deeply into without a lengthy side discussion. If you hook up with a women you have not evaluated at some length, you are playing a version of Russian roulette gambling destruction to your life through false accusation or even just by inviting an unknown crazy into your personal space.

But what about a non-girlfriend who you have sex with; a fuck buddy or friend with benefits?

This is a model with real potential. In fact, as much as it is sometimes idealized and misrepresented, a fuck-buddy is, above all else, not an irresponsible sexual free-for-all or fantasy conception. The important and forgotten element of a friends with benefit style relationship is the aspect of friendship.

It’s also useful to explore the difference between non-sexual friendship and conventional romantic relationships. The most relevant difference in this framework is the sense of proprietorship, gatekeeping, and access control found within the common structure of a romantic relationship. By contrast, a non-sexual friendship between two men has none of the preceding elements. Two friends will pursue social activity together because they want to, not because they feel an obligation.

A non-dysfunctional friends with benefits relationship reflects the non-obligatory, and non-coerced style of relationship that two male friends enjoy. Except that they also fuck. But this is a serious, trust based relationship. A FWB is not an irresponsible slut. Irresponsible sluts might be great for one night stands, but they’re also great for sexually transmitted diseases, and are a vector for legal problems, and for other destructive drama into your life.

But as much as a friend with benefits is a great thing, it is also hard to come by – because it requires that both parties to any such arrangement be fully self-owning responsible adults. Men on a path of MGTOW may be just that very thing, but the very same thing driving the MGTOW phenomenon is the almost total absence of these qualities in the female half of the population.

In addition to that absence, there is also the phenomenon of the female chameleon to contend with. This is a suite of behavioural camouflage and mimicking, used by many women to persuade men to expose their own resources for female consumption.

That said, I think a friend with benefits is an excellent arrangement providing a viable, non-exploitive and socially positive interface for men’s and women’s sexual relationships. But men absolutely must have the maturity to avoid falling into jealous attachment and access gatekeeping in return, and also must do their due diligence with any women considered as a viable friend with possible benefits. It’s easy to see what you want, and miss what’s all too obvious.

Immaturity, possessiveness, manipulation, access control, chameleon behaviour, mirroring, and the grift that follows including the counting of favours to be called in at some later time.

Can you find yourself a suitably mature and interested fuck buddy? It depends on how ready you are, and whether jealousy is a trap you’re going to fall into as well. So, yes. But don’t assume everyone is in the same space you are, either. And if you’re not ready, then sexual cold turkey is also a viable and productive plan.

I will be addressing questions of viewer emails on a weekly, ongoing basis. All that is necessary is that people are sufficiently interested and that they have questions or topics they wish to have addressed.

Thank you all for your very kind attention.

3 thoughts on “MGTOW – With Benefits”

  1. John .. while your out unicorn hunting .. remember if such women were available we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.

    If such as woman presented herself to you .. you would probably wonder why she isn’t married. If ahe was like the above example she probably would be interested in marriage. She probably would see a MGTOW as a bad option if so.

    There is NO SAFE f.b.’s (or ONS’s) for a MGTOW.

    Just one man and his opinion.

    1. That’s an interesting way to phrase it, but I don’t believe in unicorn hunting, or in “unicorns”. I also don’t think “looking” for friends is anything except a waste of time. But at the risk of sounding like a NAWALTer, there are a very few nontypical women who you, or me, or anyone will encounter by accident and become friends with who demonstrate an absence or a rejection of typical warning sign behaviour. But you cant go looking for them, because then you’ll just end up with a bunch of chameleons playing to your expectations. In fact, I don’t think it’s possible for a guy while he’s still in a frame of mind that values what the emailer of this article’s source question called “that romantic touch”.

      I see such “romance” as manipulative and repulsive.

  2. I have no problem with friends. None whatsoever.

    My .. assertion .. is if you are a MGHOW/MGTOW then .. for me anyway .. is to have no ramantic dealings at all with them (ie women).

    It’s more than a mere indifference. I am not passive in any relationship .. but when it comes to women I am very assertive at rejecting them. More to the point I become more assertive if they are slow on getting my point. The point is .. your vee’jay’jay has no power over me.

    It helps that I am a 45 year .. slowly going completely grey .. old man. My chasing days are in my past. Thank GOD I never caught one .. /sounds of laughter/

    Every man will have to decide how much risk he is willing to bear. I don’t do friends of the female gender (pun intended). My friends are men .. married and single .. no one forced them into those categories .. it was their choice.

    All the MGTOW friends I have are also past the chasing women stage. It appears to be age independent.

    As for my attitude toward women it is this .. Be polite .. Be professional .. and have a plan to ignore every woman you meet.

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